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Tarasque
Member
USA
88 Posts |
 Posted - 06/03/2009 : 04:11:35 AM
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Humanform dragons are not currently all that interesting or exciting to play. Their only viable build is crusader, and even that they are just barely suited for. Demons get warps that are infinitely more useful than any glyph, tails which can sever hands (among other things), etc. We DO have a talent that doubles our dragon mount's bonuses, so we're not at an absolute disadvantage. And I'm not suggesting that we need to be given what somebody else might have - I'm suggesting that we get something of our own that lets us compete.
My suggestion is: make Lord of the Seas and Lord of the Lands available at Dragon Mount 5+, like Lord of the Skies currently is, and alter all three powers to influence the shape and abilities of your mount.
For Skies, keep swoop as is, add this:
This power strengthens the wings of your dragon mount, replacing your fw technique with a buffeting winds attack which gains +2 attack and bypass per rank and can be used while grounded or airborne. If successful your target takes 1 point of crush damage and is sent flying. At rank 20 your summoned mount will become a wyvern, replacing its claws with a stabbing wingspike attack that gains +1 damage and attack per rank but is incapable of knocking down. At rank 30 your mount gains the ability to circle and retreat in the air.
For Lands, give mounts the same pounce as dragon form gets and add:
If you have a dragon mount, it will lose its wings and gain the ability to burrow. This power grants +2 resistance per rank while mounted, as your dragon learns to absorb some of the impact of incoming attacks with its thick scales. At rank 20 your summoned mount will become an imperial dragon, and may use an untargetted tail swing to slam the ground - this technique targets everyone within 100 feet (plus 10 per rank), and if successful deals 1 point of crush damage and sends the victim(s) flying. At rank 30 your pounce performs a cut burst if it deals damage.
For Seas, add:
If you have a dragon mount, it will lose its wings and gain the ability to levitate. This power grants +2 defence per rank while mounted, as your dragon is lighter and quicker than most, and at rank 20 your summoned mount will become a serpent, replacing its claws with a crushing bite attack and giving +1 damage, attack and bypass to tail techniques per rank. At rank 30 your feet cooldown is reduced by 1 while mounted and airborne.
Notes:
While retreating with Skies your flight defence bonus will be lost.
Pounce thingie for imperial dragons would be something liiike:
Your ancient imperial dragon slams into the prisoner, knocking her off her feet.
--==>>> You crush the prisoner's body for 1483 damage.
Your ancient imperial dragon grapples with the prisoner in midair, clawing wildly at her chest.
--==>>> You cut the prisoner's body for 1483 damage.
I don't think pounce is uber enough for giving it a burst every time to be too much, but I could be wrong. Might have to make the damage/attack/bypass bonuses for pounce that Lands grants Dragonform only, or reduce them, if the combined foot bonuses from it and Dragon Mount/Rider are too high.
I'm not dead set on any of the specific bonuses or numerical values above, as I made half of them up on the spot, but it looks like a good jumping-off point to me. Suggestions are more than welcome.
The other idea I've got is combining dragonbone forging and dragonscale crafting into a single power - or rather, removing crafting and letting forging apply to dragonscale armor the same way it currrently applies to metal armor as long as you've got the appropriate snake glyph. As for glyphs, well, I'm out of juice for now, so someone else feel free to take a shot at it. |
Edited by - Tarasque on 06/03/2009 04:16:28 AM
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KaVir
God Wars II Admin
Germany
3007 Posts |
Posted - 06/03/2009 : 12:48:31 PM
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Lord of the Lands and Lord of the Seas were originally intended as Dragon Form only, mostly because I was worried that "real" dragons wouldn't have enough variety. However they do now seem fairly varied, and I wouldn't be opposed to Human Form gaining access to them as well.
I'm undecided about having other types of mount (such as wyverns and hydra) though. In particular, I'm not happy with the idea of your dragon turning into a wyvern with rank 20 Lord of the Skies, and having your attacks changed from crush to stab (what if you want to do crush damage?). If I did allow other mount types, I'd rather it were done via an infusion, or even a talent.
Either way, these suggestions are all about helping dragon riders. I'd also like to see viable Human Form builds which don't use a mount.
One thing I definitely don't want to do is combine Dragonbone Forging and Dragonscale Crafting into a single power - they were specifically designed to be two separate powers.
Dragonscale Crafting is similar to Moon Weaving (except it works on armour rather than clothing, and you can choose from different coloured dragonscale based on the bonuses you're after), and I think it's already pretty decent. Dragonbone Forging allows you to add the same sort of bonuses to your weapons as you could with both Infernal Forging and Infernal Binding, and then you get to enhance your rings as well.
May thy fangs stay ever sharp, thy soul ever dark. |
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onodera
Member
Russia
70 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 5:18:44 PM
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At least right now, when the store is still in (I still think it's one of the best little things that set GW2 apart from other MUDs), Dragonscale Crafting is harder for newbies to use than Moon Weaving or Shadow Crafting. You have to kill a whole bunch of dragons to outfit yourself instead of getting a bunch of free stuff you can upgrade with better loot when you find it.
Dragonbone Forging might be as useful as both Infernal crafting skills, but you also have to kill dragons for their bones, and beside weapons, it only affects rings and collars (correct me if I'm completely wrong). Infernal Forging+Binding, however, work for both armour and weapons, so as a human form dragon you are stuck with good weapons (with additional bypass from your rings), but inferior armour that suffers from the same problem WW fang-forged armour does: it is not very heavy and doesn't soak a lot, but it still conflicts with your evasion immunity.
However, the most importand problem I've noticed with human form dragons is their blandness. You can build all sorts of dragons, you can build all sorts of demonic demons, you can't really build all sorts of human form demons, but at least they are exciting to play. Human form dragons aren't at all exciting. They don't get any interesting powers. Even their first subclass talent is one of the most bland, only Endurance could be blander. You can either build a caster (which won't get any of the cool powers caster dragons get) or an armoured fighter that rides a dragon, because running around without a dragon is even more boring.
Letting dragon form talents affect human form builds and their mounts would make human form dragons much more exciting to play. Also, builds that choose not to have a mount should be able to use a mutually exclusive exciting power instead. I have no idea what it could be. |
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Tarasque
Member
USA
88 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 9:34:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by onodera
At least right now, when the store is still in (I still think it's one of the best little things that set GW2 apart from other MUDs), Dragonscale Crafting is harder for newbies to use than Moon Weaving or Shadow Crafting. You have to kill a whole bunch of dragons to outfit yourself instead of getting a bunch of free stuff you can upgrade with better loot when you find it.
If you create as a dragon rider avatar, you'll start with a full suit of green dragonscale armor, all 0-rad, which is pretty nice.
quote:
Dragonbone Forging might be as useful as both Infernal crafting skills, but you also have to kill dragons for their bones, and beside weapons, it only affects rings and collars (correct me if I'm completely wrong).
Dragonbone forging also works on metal armor if you have the corresponding age 400 wisdom, I.E. Bronze Snake for bronze armor. It gives the armor a ranked bonus to phys soak and a metal-specific soak and auto-absorb. It's not bad, along with the bypass from rings. The weapon aspect would be nice too if a human form could get away with wielding a weapon.
quote:
However, the most importand problem I've noticed with human form dragons is their blandness. You can build all sorts of dragons, you can build all sorts of demonic demons, you can't really build all sorts of human form demons, but at least they are exciting to play. Human form dragons aren't at all exciting. They don't get any interesting powers. Even their first subclass talent is one of the most bland, only Endurance could be blander. You can either build a caster (which won't get any of the cool powers caster dragons get) or an armoured fighter that rides a dragon, because running around without a dragon is even more boring.
Letting dragon form talents affect human form builds and their mounts would make human form dragons much more exciting to play. Also, builds that choose not to have a mount should be able to use a mutually exclusive exciting power instead. I have no idea what it could be.
Agreed. I can't see a human form build working without a mount - you'd be far slower, lose your flight defence, and have to attack with your hands, meaning very little other defence for your wee human body. There would have to be a power or some really good glyphs available only to non-mounted humanforms, or a change to an existing power.
You could just expand the 'human form' power to be a lot more diverse, like the draconian and dragon form powers, giving all sorts of stats, and tone down the bonuses of Dragon Mount. That way someone with max human form and dragon mount would have mounts as powerful as they currently do (or stronger, considering it would be more costly to max two powers), and those without mounts would have something to work with as well. Add a foot/leg glyph location and have it determine alterations to your dragon mount, if you have one, and give non-riders some equal bonus.
Honestly I think it would just be easier to make human forms all need mounts... it's not like it's a path a lot of dragons are going to take, and the mounts are the coolest aspect of doing it in the first place. I don't think I've ever heard of a human demon build working without a warbeast. |
Edited by - Tarasque on 07/03/2009 9:36:38 PM |
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onodera
Member
Russia
70 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2009 : 11:13:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Tarasque
Dragonbone forging also works on metal armor if you have the corresponding age 400 wisdom
That is also a problem. There are no intermediate targets for human form dragons. It's just grind, grind and grind until you can do that meadow task. Vamps, WWs and Demons get special mobs to fight and get new abilities, Mages get age 200 powers and unique age 300 talents, human form dragons get nothing. |
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Feryl
Member
Singapore
572 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 4:07:22 PM
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| There are intermediate targets for human form Vampires, WW, and Demons? |
Edited by - Feryl on 09/03/2009 4:07:37 PM |
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Pygmalion
Member
USA
554 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 6:10:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Onodera
Vampires, WWs and demons get special mobs to fight..
I think he means the spirit plane, shadow plane and hell mobs? I cant think of anything else.
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onodera
Member
Russia
70 Posts |
Posted - 09/03/2009 : 6:14:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Pygmalion
I think he means the spirit plane, shadow plane and hell mobs? I cant think of anything else.
Yes, that's what I meant. I was answering from my handheld, so I didn't want to torture myself by typing a longer answer. |
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Dragon mounts, etc.
