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ivlin
Member
Canada
126 Posts |
 Posted - 24/06/2007 : 7:37:01 PM
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Hello, I'm opening this thread for all of those who want to discuss player killing. My situation is this, I have spent nearly 1000 hours now waiting for this mud to incorporate some kind of player killing. I played the original godwars and other for a very long time and the constant pk is what kept me around. I turned to godwarsII in hope of some new advanced kind of player killing. What I found was an extremely advanced fighting system but a lack of player killing. It is very simple for me I am willing ot spend another 1000 hours waiting for pk but if it is not going to be coming eventually I will be leaving in search of another way to waste my time. I have had a few ideas about player killing but I would rather like to know whether it is even going to be incorporated. I know half the pbase doesnt want it etc etc but this is listed as a "player killing" mud. This is Godwars, and godwars is ranked as one of the most successful player killing muds in my books. Anyways let me know what you guys think, ideas or flame me it's your choice. But personally I would like to here from KaVir about whether pk will be incorporated or not.
-Ivlin
--==>>> You shock Xig's head for 2259 damage (CRITICAL HIT) |
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Feryl
Member
Singapore
583 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2007 : 8:24:37 PM
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I understand that many consider the PK here to be lacking, but I really don't understand how you might imagine that player killing is not "incorporated" in the slightest way already.
quote:
I know half the pbase doesnt want it etc etc
Ivlin I love you but what the fuck are you talking about?
Feryl: But I'm not KaVir.
KaVir: Yes you are, Feryl, don't lie. |
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KaVir
God Wars II Admin
Germany
3397 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2007 : 9:51:09 PM
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I have to say I'm rather confused as well - having just checked the forums, I see one rant from Kenai who's angry about himself and others being repeatedly killed by other players, and then this post claiming that there's no PK.
Obviously there is player killing (your sig even consists of a line of PK log), so I assume what you mean is that it's not the sort of player killing you want. I certainly have plans for adding further features geared towards PK (such as clans, which I've discussed before), but I'm guessing you're not asking about something I've already said I'm going to add.
If you can tell me what sort of specific player killing features you're looking for, perhaps I can give you a better answer.
May thy fangs stay ever sharp, thy soul ever dark. |
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ivlin
Member
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 24/06/2007 : 11:02:53 PM
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I guess in the simplest form Yes there is PK. However 95% of it is just age 300's with nothing to do slaughtering newbies. The pk system I am speaking of is some kind of reward for pk. Through discussions i've had everyone feels it wont work because of multiplaying etc etc. I know what clans are supposed to represent and do but I would also like a way for .. just me to gain superiority. Here is just an example I have pondered recently:
In order to advance from age 400 to 500 you can either get a rediculous amount of primal aka like 50,000 per age train. (This way those who don't want to pk can still do it) Or you must kill someone below you within 10 ages or anyone aged higher. Example Ivlin age 410 kills xig age 408. Ivlin gets 2 random stat trains based on his subclass where xig loses 2 random stat trains.. based on his subclass. Thus leaving Ivlin at age 412 and xig at 406. I don't feel that this is overly powerful but it would give those who excel at pk the ability to grow.. rather then primal the entire time.
-Ivlin
--==>>> You shock Xig's head for 2259 damage (CRITICAL HIT) |
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Cynath
Member
Canada
195 Posts |
Posted - 25/06/2007 : 12:12:46 AM
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Some form of elite pk aging system?
I wouldnt mind that too much, though if anyone hits 400 with any chars they can easily feed themselves to 500, and then masochists win, but at least bots will lose. Or will they? |
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ivlin
Member
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 25/06/2007 : 03:04:09 AM
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I know this sounds harsh... but maybe a *cringes* rule of no killing your own alts?:O Interesting isn't it haha.
-Ivlin
--==>>> You shock Xig's head for 2259 damage (CRITICAL HIT) |
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Feryl
Member
Singapore
583 Posts |
Posted - 25/06/2007 : 06:48:56 AM
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quote:
If you can tell me what sort of specific player killing features you're looking for
quote:
give those who excel at pk the ability to grow..
I think this is the main thing that most players from other PK muds want -- character development from PK. Currently you only gain player skill, and nothing for your character (not counting primal, which is irrelevant at max age. And fangs, player fangs suck). As someone who did not really play for PK in previous games, I find PK its own reward, but I'm in the minority here.
Even if we had a title system (suggested various times before), sooner or later someone's gonna complain about the lack of "real" bonuses from PK.
I think Ivlin's got an idea there, but it has one of the main flaws of most PK systems: The strong get stronger and the weak get weaker easily. This then leads to the second problem, which is people turtling up to avoid getting the PK penalty, so you just have a pbase of tanks.
quote:
though if anyone hits 400 with any chars they can easily feed themselves to 500
If you don't lose age below 400, and your opponents don't gain age if they're above 400 and you're 400 and below, then you can't feed your alts easily (you might need at least 3 400s, I believe). This however makes starting off slow -- you can only get to 402 by killing 400s, after which, you have to find 402s and above to kill, which means the first few players up there will be killing each other and going between 400 and 402.
Feryl: But I'm not KaVir.
KaVir: Yes you are, Feryl, don't lie. |
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Nikodemus
Member
Finland
89 Posts |
Posted - 25/06/2007 : 11:03:59 AM
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I like the idea, except for the loss of age on defeat. People will actually be cautious about engaging in PvP.
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Knives: I dont see the point of taking me off ignore in the first place.
Acee chats, 'Nikodemus theres nothing but ocean at 1294000 300.'
Flamekid chats, 'I am smarter than most that play this MUD.' |
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KaVir
God Wars II Admin
Germany
3397 Posts |
Posted - 25/06/2007 : 12:21:17 PM
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quote:
I know this sounds harsh... but maybe a *cringes* rule of no killing your own alts?
Then people will just kill each other's alts ("you can kill mine if I can kill yours!").
Here's a proposal for the sort of thing I wouldn't mind seeing:
Status
Status isn't simply a value, but rather a list of unique names. The total number of names represents your actual status rating. Thus if your status list consists of "Ivlin", "Feryl" and "KaVir", you'd have a status of 3.
Once Anointed, you can choose to purchase a status point for 10k soul points. This personal status point will have your own name.
If you kill someone else who has status, you will steal their personal status point. If they no longer have their own status point, you'll steal one of their other status points, picked at random. If you already have that status point, you get 5k soul points instead (although they still lose the point of status).
You can have up to 10 points of status (which MUST include your personal status point - without it, the maximum is 9). If you earn more than that, you get 5k soul points instead (you may also choose to retain the new status instead of one of your older ones). If you lose your personal status point you can buy it back for 10k soul points.
Each point of status gives a +1 bonus to a power of your choice. You can configure the bonus via the 'status' command, and it is applied in exactly the same way as the subclass power bonuses. The range at which you can be sensed by supernatural powers (such as senses, ears, etc) also increases by 100 feet per point of status.
If you kill someone who has no status and is so low age that you lose primal from killing them, you will also lose your personal status point (if you have one).
Obviously it's still possible to kill your own alts, but you could only kill them once each - and you couldn't do a two-way status exchange with a friend or alt. Furthermore, unless you're strong enough to hold on to your status, you'd lose it anyway - and because the status is capped at 10, you'd be better off taking it from other players if you're strong enough to hold it.
May thy fangs stay ever sharp, thy soul ever dark. |
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KaVir
God Wars II Admin
Germany
3397 Posts |
Posted - 25/06/2007 : 12:37:49 PM
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A couple of potential problems:
Problem 1: People with lots of SP can simply rebuy their status each time they die, and never risk losing accumulated status.
Solution: If you kill someone and you've already got their personal status point, then you will simply steal another one of their status points at random.
Problem 2: People could create 'status alts' and let people kill them for a SP fee. In particular, I could see clans retaining a wardrobe of alts for their members to get a quick status-fix from.
Solution: If you kill someone, and your random status point gain is one you've already got, not only if the status converted into sp that you steal - you also get to pick another status point at random, and so on and so forth until you either earn a new status point, or they run out of status entirely.
The second solution is pretty harsh, but it does also solve another problem. Suppose we have two characters, which I'll refer as "Acee" and "MonkeyMaster". Acee buys a point of status, then kills MonkeyMaster for a second point of status, and whenever he loses his status he can simply repeat the process.
However Feryl kills Acee a couple of times, and thus earns both "Acee" and "MonkeyMaster" status points. Now every time Feryl kills Acee, Acee loses both status points and Feryl earns 10k soul points.
May thy fangs stay ever sharp, thy soul ever dark. |
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Negator
Member
Australia
336 Posts |
Posted - 25/06/2007 : 12:49:20 PM
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Ivlin, thanks for starting this thread. Along with the "tournament" thread, there is obviously a large number of players that want more PvP, and I am one of them. The main reason why I joined was the "PK" label on the MUD.
There are three problems - a) providing an incentive; b) getting people to keep PKing instead of being scared of losing something; c) getting people to find each other.
Point a) is resolved by Feryl's idea of an age bracket (although I would suggest narrowing this to maybe 20 years, rather than 100). This should keep people from getting so powerful that nobody can really challenge them, without letting people dropping out of contention.
Point b) could be addressed by your age decaying over time unless you engage in more PK - so you can work yourself up to the top of the prestige PK age bracket, but if you rest on your laurels, you drift back to the bottom of the bracket (but no lower).
Point c) is a bit harder, I don't really think arenas are the solution, and right now people can't find each other in the Nexus except by arrangement.
Perhaps designate (say) three locations of the Nexus as prestige areas (with public coordinates). These are the places where competitive PK can take place. Raising your age in the prestige bracket can only be done by killing within 1000 feet of these coords. This might need something to stop long-range teleport and similar escapes.
I do think titles are a cool idea, also. Hell, I'll even volunteer to transcribe the title holders to the forums on a weekly basis, for added flattery. 
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ivlin
Member
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 26/06/2007 : 01:30:42 AM
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I'm very glad to see such enthusiasm into player killing as it is about the only reason I am here. I like KaVir's Idea however it still lacks one of the main problems we have today. People can Max out. It may take us 300 hours to get to the 10 status but hell i've spent 500 at age 300 now. Don't get me wrong I like the idea but it's the whole "maxing" out sort of thing. I very much like Negators idea of losing status over a period of time.
My solution to this problem would mix the two theories...
You do lose your status if you are not active, however; If you have 10 status and kill someone else within your status "range" you should be granted a backup status. This would only work for the timing of pking. In example. I am at 10 status while cynath is at 10 aswell. Cynath kills Ivlin, Ivlins status is reduced to 9, while cynaths status stays at 10 but he receives a backup status (which can be accumulated...) In other words this would give players an incentive to continue pking once they reach 10 status so that if they ever do have to go away they arnt well.. screwed over. This also helps those who people refuse to fight, simply to try and drain them of there status over time. If I have 50 backups.. you may be waiting a while for me to lose it. Another part of this could be if you are 10 status and have 10 backups (number doesnt matter of course) if you lose your status due to pk, you would lose all backup status and a single point of your status. Anyways my posts tend to ramble on as I never have a clear focus when I begin writing.
Hopefully this can be implemented soon as I would love to begin slaying Xig for more then bragging rights.
--==>>> You shock Xig's head for 2259 damage (CRITICAL HIT) |
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Xig
Member
391 Posts |
Posted - 26/06/2007 : 02:06:41 AM
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| this still seems to leave players that are already having trouble killing people, or classes who have fallen behind in terms of pk potential in a really bad spot, with everyone who is capable of accumulating 'status' gaining yet another bonus and the ability to essentially lord it over the less powerful or less fortunate. |
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ivlin
Member
Canada
126 Posts |
Posted - 26/06/2007 : 04:08:41 AM
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Well all I can really say to Xig's post is that every player has the potential to be strong. There is a strong player in ever class and its not because we've been here for so long that we have had time to find rigged items etc etc, I through together a mage build in 5 days.
-Ivlin
--==>>> You shock Xig's head for 2259 damage (CRITICAL HIT) |
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Pygmalion
Member
USA
752 Posts |
Posted - 26/06/2007 : 04:36:19 AM
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I know how to promote pk. When you kill someone you should get a message, "You're a winner! Have a cookie." Then a cookie appears in your inventory and it's called "ivlin's cookie of awesomeness" and it tastes like win. I think that would motivate a lot of people.
Edit: BTW, the loser would get a message, "try again champ. Have a cookie" and it could be "Ivlin's cookie of consolation(or maybe pity)" oh and it tastes like tears
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Edited by - Pygmalion on 26/06/2007 04:41:09 AM |
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chaosrex
Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 05/11/2007 : 6:15:32 PM
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i just opened this thread, didnt realise one already existed. but One of the big problems i think is that you keep trying to hinder bots. that shouldnt even be bothered with. bots just bot, they are easily enogh killed whilst botting. and if anything some kind of reward would deter botting, as they would get beat down so much from people wanting a free kill. multiplaying as well will be an issue. i personally wouldnt bother trying to stop it, as if someone tries funny crap like that they will still be inclined to enter the nexus. everyone keeps saying that clans are going to fix pk, but really if there is a big problem with it already then that shoild be sorted out before clans are even spoken of. i joined because i though i would be able to gank players all the time with my sneakiness, but you cant be very sneaky in a duelling areana.
http://clanscw.brinkster.net/godwars/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1800
Jerk chats, 'Because at least primal grind is finite.'
Jerk chats, 'Eq grind is until the day you die.'
Eri looks at you. Eri exclaims, 'Holy shit, blood guard!'
[VICTORY] Fraust defeated Tarasque with 100% health remaining. |
Edited by - chaosrex on 05/11/2007 6:16:50 PM |
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Feryl
Member
Singapore
583 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 01:02:07 AM
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quote:
that shouldnt even be bothered with. bots just bot, they are easily enogh killed whilst botting.
I'm sorry you live in a world with script kiddies and lousy bots.
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Feryl: But I'm not KaVir.
KaVir: Yes you are, Feryl, don't lie.
KaVir: Great War is only once every 6 hours. Evil Feryl is forever. |
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chaosrex
Member
USA
588 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 02:47:54 AM
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You know feryl you could possibly help us find a solution. might be a little more helpful than just constantly pointing out the flaws and making snide judgements .
Jerk chats, 'Because at least primal grind is finite.'
Jerk chats, 'Eq grind is until the day you die.'
Eri looks at you. Eri exclaims, 'Holy shit, blood guard!'
[VICTORY] Fraust defeated Tarasque with 100% health remaining. |
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Syrin
Member
Canada
66 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 04:34:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by chaosrex
You know feryl you could possibly help us find a solution. might be a little more helpful than just constantly pointing out the flaws and making snide judgements .
Nah.
Pallmall chats, 'Man,, i thini ksomeone just dossod myyy ddriink, imma g o pass opup/' |
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keshlor
Member
91 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 10:12:33 AM
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The problem that I see is that the outcome of a pk fight is too predictable, which discourages pk because there's not much of a thrill when it comes to predetermined combat.
_________________________
I fall.. you fall.. |
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Feryl
Member
Singapore
583 Posts |
Posted - 06/11/2007 : 2:25:34 PM
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quote:
You know feryl you could possibly help us find a solution. might be a little more helpful than just constantly pointing out the flaws and making snide judgements .
I was pointing out that bots don't suck just because you do, and they are an important consideration, and its not a "big problem" that KaVir bothers with them, and you contribute little yourself - in terms of quality, of course, not quantity.
quote:
The problem that I see is that the outcome of a pk fight is too predictable, which discourages pk because there's not much of a thrill when it comes to predetermined combat.
I agree to some extent. I've turned down a good number of duels because I know I will win with 100% certainty and with 100% health remaining (not really that rare or awesome for a regen build), and I've also turned down duels that I have absolutely no chance of winning. Of course some people think I'm bluffing in the former case and a coward in the latter, but since I PK for self-improvement there's no point wasting time on a battle that won't teach me anything.
On the flipside I've been surprised by the results of some duels anyway, and usually with the less regular players. This tells me two things: regulars are pretty accurate in pre-determining the outcome of a fight, but regulars are also more likely to oversimplify and assume too much.
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Feryl: But I'm not KaVir.
KaVir: Yes you are, Feryl, don't lie.
KaVir: Great War is only once every 6 hours. Evil Feryl is forever. |
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Topic |
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Player Killing
